<<23 March 1986>> Carol Back & Steve Richardson

 

A Fracas I Had in Springville Before I Came to Salt Lake

Just before I came up here, I had quite a session in the bank, and they almost offered me the bank with gold letters, if I'd take one of the positions there that they had open for me at the bank in Springville.  I refused.  I was talking with Clay Packard [who] was then handling the bank.  I'm about to give you personal background, and I hope you take the part I want you to take and forget the hard-hearted part that might turn out to be there.I had had book keeping in the family at home.  Mother ran the farm, the boys did the work, Momma managed it, they worked under mother, you'd never know who was boss there, and no one cared.  They all worked together and worked for each other.  And I can remember from the time I was a little teeny girl, I kept telling Momma, if somebody didn't keep track of all the money they spent on more horses and more cows than they did on the grain that was produced on the ground, then somebody was going to lose some money. And Momma couldn't understand why I'd had such an idea, and I don't know why I did.  I think it was something inborn in me.  I think I told you before, I do believe in predestination.  And I was on a bookkeeping staff somewhere, Lord only knows--I don't.  Book keeping seems to come easy for me.  I wanted it.  I was working for it.  And I think that was what was causing that urge.  But anyway, in my homemade way (now Alt and Les had taught me how to read and write and count--you see Alt was 3 years older than I was, and Les was 8 years, so they were old enough that they could bring their work home and bring me up to date, and I'd be out of their hair awhile while they were studying).  And I can remember that part of it too.  That was when I got my start in keeping books at home, and I did it in a notebook, I asked them if I could have a notebook that was all mine.  And I didn't want one that the pages'd come out in the middle of it. You've seen those notebooks that's been sewed up right down the middle and then they'll be torn out there, then you lose half of 'em? That was the kind I'd received before. I said I wanted a notebook that didn't tear out in the middle.  And that was what I learned to keep books on.  Now they never told me anything that they were doing, but you know, in a family like ours we all lived in the kitchen.  And my ears were tuned for those things.  Another one was on my predestination deal, I'd hear this, and I'd hear that, from one boy or another, and talking along with Momma, it wasn't anything they were saying to me or keeping from me.  That was one thing about our kitchen: there we all talked, and they all talked together, but they didn't argue....  That was how I learned to keep books for a family.  So as I wrote down so much money for a horse to represent the one that died, and I had a little bit of the history with it.  So as I went back over my books, I knew what I was talking about, and they could read it. Well, that was fine.  If that was what I wanted to write, then that was fine. They needed that, too.  So that was how I had done all the way up through my years.  But nobody, not even Momma kept any track.  And she kept track in her checkbook.  She had her stubs. She had it written up, you couldn't hardly see what was supposed to be there, but the things that she had put in.  So they had all of that.  Well, after I got married, the McKenzie boys worked on the farm and the father was a contractor of bridges and highways and ditches and other things...in the contracting business.  The boys did farm work, but there was no books kept.  They expected the bank to have kept track of all of that.  The bank kept track of all Grandpa's estate, his money, for the construction company, and I think that he figured they were doing the same thing on his home.  Well then I come in and could see that nothing was kept. I'm a little snoop along with everything else, and up in the top of the grainery they stored things that they didn't like, and it was like a menagerie to me.  There was a big barrel in there, with things in it, a little bit of everything that had ever happened around the farm.  In it was one of these big files on keeping your books.  About a fourth of the pages had been used in it.  But they were way way back in years.  And it was in Bill's (that's Mr. McKenzie's son) [writing] when he was with them, but he'd been out and been in wholesale work for so long then, that I believed it was all obsolete and that part was out.  I took it and asked his father, 'cause I knew grandma wouldn't know what was in there, he was business and she was home.  He didn't remember anything about it.  He says "That's Bill's writing!"  And I told him where I had found it.  "What were you doing out in there?"  And I said, "I was snooping.  I just like to look at what people discard, and always wonder why.  When I found this, it was going to be discarded.  In time these pages would all be lost.  So I wanted to know if they were something you needed to keep, or if I could take them out and use the rest of that book, and keep our accounts."  He said sure, I could.  That's what I did.  So that was what mine was kept on.  And I think it kinda woke up the fact that I recognized what Bill was doing, what a wonderful job he had done, and how he had tallied out.  His figures all came out perfect, there was never any erasing done, or any writing over.  He said "I don't see how you ever noticed all those things!"  And I said "I don't know, I guess it's 'cause I've done it."  So it ended that way, and I got that book and I kept up with our immediate lot that came into our place.  Not to the other boy's place, not to their concern, not under grandpa's name, so I kind of had two sets of books in there in two different places.  Now Ray knew I was keeping these things.I got part of mine [my experience] through the bank because every once in awhile I'd have to check up.  They didn't keep books like I did.  And I didn't blame them for it, it was always my fault, 'cause I don't know.  But I didn't want to do it wrong, so I'd take the blame all the time, but I got the same lesson whether I did or I didn't.  So they had seen what I was doing over the years.  And then another reason I had to keep [records], Grandma was at home.  She never wrote out checks, they didn't have her signature in the bank, other than on deeds and such as that.  But to sign anything or any waiver, anything from there, she didn't have it!  But if grandpa were to have been away for a little longer than he expected, he had to turn over household money to her, enough to carry her.  But bless the poor old soul, she never thought that she could get that money turned over to her right at the bank, or that that money could be so she could draw it if she needed it.  But Leland could draw what he needed.  The bank did keep track of that, so that maybe deceived grandpa too, I don't know.  But at any rate, when I heard about it, I put a question [mark] by it, showing that I wasn't sure of the outcome, or any of it.  And so when it come to the end of figuring out for the two boys, when Leland wanted to sell the ranch, and sell the cattle, they couldn't do that, he had got in the condition that he couldn't take over all of it, and Leland turned out to be sick and couldn't do anything, so they had to sell it.  It was killing Ray and the rest of us, too.  But when Ray and Leland got to figuring out, Leland was supposed to have kept track of all this money that had come in in the last 8 years.  I had my books and...they weren't making very much money.  I could say no money after debts were paid and what have ya.  But I had it all down, on what every cent was spent for--took a little more time--and for how much paid and how many pounds and what we got per pound. And all in this one little book that Mac had used in the office where he kept books for 'em while he was going to school.  This [sounds like backbite] is Billy, Ray's half brother (he had a half sister and a half brother by a former wife).  Billy had kept books for them and he was very good, and he went into Utah Wholesale, and grandpa was one of the head stock holders in that (he had got to that point in his financial status). Leland had a right to get what he needed to run the farm on.  That was arranged at the bank.  And that left poor Grandma without anything.  Well, she'd need some money, she wanted something bad and she didn't have it. She asked me if I could get it for her.  And I said "You know I could get it for you, as long as we've got it. I'll do it every time I possibly can. If we've not got it, I can't get it either.  Oh, she knew that, 'cause that's the way she'd lived all her life.  So my books were all on up to date and balanced out every month and corrected by the month before.  So when they got in to settle up, it had to be that there was no record given, and Ray had asked Leland time and time again, to get his books all up to date.  Now the McKenzie's thought that I was dumb and stupid, didn't know anything.  And I'm glad they found out in a hurry.  Because that was where they [sounds like raise-ed] me.  Ray found out I was keeping books, so he was safe, and our books were all in [sounds like time].  Leland came out, the one day that they had settled [on] with an armload of papers!  And I said "What on earth have you got?"  He says "That's my record."  It had gone 8 years.  You know the bank has these calendars that has the date on it, and a little question right on?  That was his record for 8 years.  That was what he had there. And he was going to figure it up I guess--let me figure it up--I don't know what he thought.  But anyway, I said, "I'm not going to scratch one of your figures.  I'm not going to look over your figures.  We always kept that in our home, I know what it is.  I know how it can be kept.  And I know it isn't always kept that way.  And I know there aren't two in any family that does it the same." 'Cause I said Alt and Wes could have a different calendar entirely by their bed from what Stirl did (that was another brother).  So I said "I wouldn't touch it with anything."  Ray says "[sounds like over] she doesn't have to."  And I said "It's all got to be done, and it's got to be done by someone that knows how to keep books. It's got to be all figured out by an abstracter.  And I will pay my half of the abstracting, if it's a good abstracter.  But if it isn't a good one, I won't pay.  So I want that understood in the first."  So, I got it over and they knew it was just my hard headedness.  They went down and asked Fay, president of the bank, then (his dad was down and he was taking over his father's place), if he could come and help them straighten out the mess they were in.  I had kept their books all the time.  He says "I know what's in there every month, when she gets through telling, she checks over with me to see that everything is all right, if I put in everything that I should do, or left out what I should've put in."  So he says "Hers is all up to date.  Leland has come out with his calendars.  And she won't touch 'em.  Now can you come and help us get it straightened out, to make a [sounds like minimum] between the two?" And he says, "No, I can't. There isn't a man living on God's green earth that'd do it.  But there are people that're trained that could come in with a mess like you described, and another set covering the same amount of time, with practically the same figures in it somewhere, all totalled out.  Now that would just be a godsend for a good man." So he came out.  Ray said "I don't know how Leland'll take that." He says "I'll tell him.  And I dare you to ever contradict my word on it. 'Cause I'd like to see the man that could do it."  So, he came out, he told Leland.  He says "I know that has been going to be done all these years, 'Cause I have heard about it, it isn't figured out yet, but it will be.  It's a book that isn't closed."  And I talked to Fay so much about different things that I had defined a solution for, my family lived on one jackpot, McKenzies lived on another, practically the same setup it should be, only it wasn't.  So when I'd get up a tree limb I'd go to Fay to find out what it is, but I had figures on both sides that he could see how to work with.  And I had it figured out the way I wanted to put it down in the book.  Well, he had got opened up to the way I did keep them, with so much writing on, that he went ahead with it.  He says "I'll give you just 3 days to get that all cleared up.  That in the way of time, dates, places, people, and all--so that you've got an account of what happened."  And all that in 3 days!  Now Leland had married a school teacher, and I had just been swimming around her all the time 'cause she was smart.  She had graduated from college (at the time teachers only had to go two years). She didn't know how he kept books, she didn't know where he kept them, she wouldn't touch those at home.  So when he got into it he saw what a mess he was in, he could see I had those things figured out, according to people and place and all, so he called me on the phone and asked me if I could help him out, so he could put it in a chronological way.  I said "No, Leland, I can't.  You know what February is, you know what March is, and you can do that yourself [sounds like is only year].  Now that's what you've got to do, is addin', so you go for the year first, and you get your years, and you get your months, then you work from there when you've got something to go with."  And I said "You've got to go from the bottom. And you've got to come right up with it."  Well, I guess I got about 3 calls that night, "What about this, when I get down to here, what about it?"  And I said "You rack your own brain [sounds like perfort it did thet].  He said "What did you enter that as?"  I said "I entered that as what it was!  If you'd sold some grain, I said you sold grain, barley, [sounds like did'ja all know] for so much a pound, or bushel or whatever it was, and how much it came to."  So I said it was all right there in the same paragraph.  And, well, he didn't see how it could be, and I said "You saw my book! You have my book! But you have known it hasn't been scratched on or hasn't been erased.  And I better not find a place that has been when it comes back.  But you have it, you can see how I did it, and where I put it. And if I worked with the same [sounds like about it] ever since you did, you could do exactly the same thing, only you should of been doing it all the way along and then it wouldn't of been such a big deal.  Then on the next day he had got in touch with an attorney. The attorney had given him data all figured out according to the days, as they come.  But there's one that says "data" on it, but this man was to cover that.  He got in on it and he said "I'm sorry, I could no more do anything with this than you can."  He says "You go ahead and do the best you can with it, 'cause I couldn't do any better."  And by the third day I was invited in again.  And I said "Leland, I won't come in.  I won't touch it. You couldn't pay me enough to touch it.  I have had too much and I'm [sounds like craza dooa]." "I've got it all down, I'll do it! Lillian can help, she's had that experience, she can do it."  I said "All right then, you and Lillian can go right ahead and do it."....  They let it go at that. Then Fay called me.  He says "Eunice, Leland refuses to do anything."  And I said "OK, Fay, do you want to back Leland or do you want to back me? I'll take it to the officer that can go ahead and get to the bottom of that mess, and he'll pay the bill--every bit of it.  'Cause I don't feel I've got to pay a book keeper for his books.  Cause I've got mine up to date."  He says "You can't do it that way."  I said "Why can't I?  Do I keep your books?"....  And it's on a smaller scale than one that should have been kept.  He said "I don't think you can do it." And I said "To tell you the truth, I don't either, 'cause I don't think he's got backbone enough to stand by it.I don't think he'll fight for it, but he's going to have to fight for this one.  So he did.  Leland and his wife, and the bishop, and the president of the bank, and the president's son came to our place that night.  They says "We've just come, all of us, to a neutral spot where we can all say what we want to say, when we want to say it, and there would be no trouble caused by it, because everyone had different ideas on it.  Ray and Eunice can talk about it their way, you could give them your idea about how it should be, after eight years."....

You know, I should cut it short, 'cause I could keep on raving.  When I get on that subject I've had a long time of it.  But anyway, that had gone on for eight years.  But they did get an accountant in, he got through according to Leland, and he got through according to Leland's wife. You know they owed us $17,000 in eight years?  And they paid it.  Every bit. I have a guilty feeling every time I think about it.  Now we lived on what little we got, those 8 years.  We managed to live--not like they did--we couldn't live like that.  But we managed to live on it and love each other, that was our best years, and we enjoyed ourselves with what we had. When it was all over, the attorney and the accountant had it straightened up between them, they had Leland sign it, undersigned by his wife.  Then Leland said "I want Eunice's name on it first, on hers, that it was her book keeping."  I said "I think that's only right!  I did that figuring.  I'm perfectly satisfied.  I'll stand behind every penny that's there, but I won't take one penny that's anyone else's.  Leland wanted my name first, then he signed it "under protest", he said, by his name.  According to my books, that was legal.  Leland called me up, there was about 6 times in his record that he couldn't account for a certain amount of money that had come in, that I hadn't given me credit for any coming over to them.  'Cause that was what they did, was write out checks, one to the other.  And that was the way he kept books.  But he couldn't find checks, a stub--to tell you the truth he didn't know what a stub was, but he did when he got through.  I had all those records there in my book and verified them all.  So when he called on me, I could go right to them all.  I had the box labeled, and could tell what the check was for.  He said "I don't know how we're ever going to pay you that!"  I said "Leland, I don't either.  But you're going to pay me."  He wrote a check for it. All in one check.  He had borrowed money to pay me back.  I said "Leland, did you borrow money to do it?"  He said "I did, every bit.  On the back is written, 'Money that's hard to get, is hard to find.  When you do find it, you have to dig for it.' This money is all got by digging. And Eunice helped us dig, every inch of the way." He says "I'm giving you credit for it." I said "Thank you, that's all I want, for the first time for you to say, that I did something right.  Do you know never once have you given me credit for knowing anything, since I've been in the family?" 

Have you written up Uncle Richard's history, any of it?  Is there anything on file?  I was thinking the other day how fortunate that poor old soul was, he had been neglected all his life and didn't think he was all there and didn't think he'd do this, or didn't know that, but he come out all right.  When Uncle Rich died, Les was the only one that knew anything about his affairs. He lived most of his life there in our home when Les was the [sounds like big] boy, and he had talked with Uncle Rich and all, so when Uncle Rich died,[sounds like he's a seeyup] and all of the Richardsons from the other side of the families, and came in, and by the way these was just Poppa's family was in on it; her children by the first husband [Ames] wasn't in on that 'cause that was just the Richardsons. And when Les got to the bank, talking to the banker about it, he found that Uncle Rich had put aside enough money to pay for burial and straighten that out, and pay all his expenses and to get markers for his father and mother and himself in the cemetery.  By the time that Les got through he put all the rest of it in the markers.  And they had all three got markers written right up on them for Uncle Rich.  So Uncle Rich left his life just as quietly has he had lived all his life. He was thinking about markers, and how high the markers are.  I'll tell you what made me think about it.  My marker is [sounds like all bills]. When I had it made up when Ray died,we had to get a larger size tomb, the place that was dug out for it had to be larger.  Therefore we had to get a larger marker to cover it.  So we paid for it by the inch, and I was thinking how mine was all made out, all written up at the time of death.  I wasn't dead yet.  I wonder how they're going to put that on, whether that was taken in when they had the other made up or not?  I still don't know.  But that was why it rolled around in my mind then: I had something lead to back home.

To read the interviews dated 29 and 31 March 1987, click here.

To return to Eunice's index page, click here.

To return to the Richardson Family index page, click here.

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